S2 Episode 15 Lindy’s Disocactus x hybridus
Lindy with ‘Sally’s Cactus’
When I say Cactus – what image springs to mind. Are you instantly transported to a desert scene visualising a plant covered in spines, surviving in extreme temperatures, no water in sight? Or are you transported to a forest and dappled shade with epiphytic cacti, living in the nooks and crannies of the tree trunks?
For this episode it’s the latter image you need in your head because we’re talking about Forest Cacti. Though in fact Lindy’s plant is actually living far from the forest, on the floor of a North facing room in a Victorian terrace house.
In this episode we learn how to care for these cacti. How can you encourage forest cacti to bloom? Given that they grow on trees, what should you pot them in? Where in your house should you place them? How much water do they need?
But I think what this episode is really about is plants as living memorials. Perhaps it is because a plant bears the name of its original owner and that name along with the cuttings has been are passed down through the generations. It was lovely to hear Lindy’s story about the cactus in her house, known in the family as Sally’s cactus due to the neighbour who gave the original cutting to her mum. In Lindy’s house, it always blooms during Wimbledon!
Or perhaps a plant has been rescued when after a lifetime of care by its owner, it needed a new home because that owner has died and there was no one left to take care of it.
It was a joy to have a conversation with Sarah Gerrard Jones who is also known on Instagram as The Plant Rescuer, who says of plants:
“I just think there is something so... beautiful about all the care and attention that has gone into nurturing this plant and when that person passes away I feel all that love is still contained there within every single cell of those plants and I feel that's something you can really feel.”
I think Sarah’s passion for plants is infectious. Personally as you will hear in this episode I have always had a bit of a problem with cacti but she made me see them in a new light. I hope you enjoy the episode.
ps If you are wondering why this episode is called Lindy’s Disocactus x hybridus then you’ll have to listen because Sarah untangles a naming confusion that goes a very long way back.
pps Some but not all Forest/epiphytic cacti are referred to as Orchid Cacti which is a common name.
Transcript including notes on how to grow orchid cacti
00:01
Welcome to our plant stories. We're going to be learning how to get forest cacti to bloom.
They do respond to a drop in temperature over the winter. So if you've got it hanging near a window, which mine is, of course, near a window, it does get a lot colder in the winter. So I don't really have to do anything to help mine flower.
Sharing a lovely plant story.
I came to realise that this ugly straggly plant. It got really spectacular flowers. My mum would take photographs of it and hers would have 20 or 30 of these flowers which were as big as saucers.
and sorting out a bit of terminology, though I realise probably not everyone will agree. Cactus, cacti, cacti, cactus. Oh, cactus, cacti, either is fine. I can flip between either. I did look this up recently and either is acceptable, so officially it's fine. You go with what you like.
01:12
If we were to meet in person, there's a good chance I would start asking you about plants. And that's how this story came about. I'd met Lindy Sharp, a food systems academic, last November and was talking to her about the podcast when she said, I have a plant that's been passed down through my family and it always blooms during Wimbledon. Wow not only did I have a plant story, but the perfect time to share it, as here in the UK, we have two weeks of Wimbledon to enjoy. So, without further ado, let's dig into cacti.
02.00
Your plant story is about a cactus. Not my favourite plant, but let's just put that on one side. So, because lots of people like them, and it's not about me. So, tell me a little bit about your plant story.
Well, my cactus, the cactus in question, is not really my favorite plant either. It came into our family, this cactus, because it's a sort of hereditary cactus, it came into my family when I was a little girl and we lived in what had been a terrace of miners' cottages in a place called Gosforth in the northeast of England. And...my father wasn't a miner. There still were miners living in the cottages. But there was a man and a woman, a husband and wife, who lived in a nearby house and this woman was very eccentric and she used to go around the houses knocking on doors talking and this was, you know, could be a bit of a nuisance. Anyway, her name was Sally. One day she came to the door of our house with a cactus in a pot. And my mother, who was a plant lover, we had a cottage, had a very long garden, rather wild, but we all love gardening, took this cactus in. And so...all through my childhood, this cactus actually was on the mantelpiece in the front room. And there it sat and I was a kid, I didn't really take much notice of it. But I do remember that every year, and it was always when Wimbledon was on the then black and white telly in the corner of our room, because my mum was also a tennis fan, bizarrely, because she didn't like any other sport. When Wimbledon was on the TV, this cactus had red flowers.
And that's really as much as I remember. Time then moved on and I left home and my mum stayed, moved into a different house, but she still had this cactus. By then in a back bedroom, that being my mum, she converted into a kind of plant hospital. And I came to realise that this quite ugly, straggly plant got really spectacular flowers. My mum would...take photographs of it, and hers would have 20 or 30 of these flowers, which were as big as saucers, huge red flowers every year. So when I went to live in Canada and then I came back and eventually when I got settled back, she gave me a leaf from her cactus, and indeed she had given my older sister leaves from this cactus. And you can grow this cactus from a leaf. And we all set off. It grows quite well, but it doesn't have much charm. It takes up a lot of space, that's one thing. It grows kind of long, straggly, straplike leaves, and each leaf is edged with almost invisible, but highly penetrating hairs. And you just really need to brush against it and the hairs stick into your skin. So I have a kind of really, I really have a love-hate relationship with the plant.
05:20
I don't have a lot of space for plants. I have no window cells. I live in a Victorian house with no windowsills. And so plant space is at a premium. But I give it, as I give it a house, sometimes I put it on the top of bookcases. I tried to put it in my husband's study for a long time, but he didn't like that. So I've been relegated to a north-facing window. And I would say for 11 and a half months of the year, it's just straggling and I sometimes remember to water, it doesn't like too much water. But then, at about this time of year, and as I speak, it's the very beginning of June, it starts to get tiny little red buds. And these grow until, in Wimbledon week, Wimbledon fortnight, the buds are pointed and about four inches long, three or four inches long, and then they open into scarlet, multi-petaled flowers, which are iridescent on the inside, have pale lemon stamens which drop a kind of ambrosial, sticky liquid onto the floorboards. And they only last for a day. And then they go limp and you can twist them off. So once a year this plant comes down, goes into the fireplace or somewhere in the living room quite prominently, and is magnificent and then it has to be put away again for the rest of the year.
06:52
That is a plant that gives, but you wait a long time, don't you, for the gift?
The problem is the space it takes up. I would say that the plant itself now, well, you've seen it, I would say it's about two foot in diameter and about 18 inches high, all these spiky leaves, straggly leaves sticking out of it. And yes, you've just got to live with it really until it comes into its own. My... sister's cactus is one of my sisters has extremely green fingers and this cactus I should say is always known in our family as Sally's cactus. So both my sisters have Sally's cactus and one of my sisters got very green fingers and hers has always gone away like tops. She also has very deep window sills in her house. So her hers has always gone away like tops.
There's a bit of windowsill envy going on there, isn't there? I understand that. I share your pain because I don't have them over.
Yeah, it's a nuisance. They've disappeared. My other sister is married to a man of very green fingers and he has a greenhouse. And so he keeps his Sally's Cactus in the greenhouse, which has the result of making it have much more orderly growth actually when I come to think about it. It's not as straggly. And his for some reason always flowers earlier. So his flowered already, his flowered in late May. Mine will be another five weeks still flowering.
Have you given Sally's cactus to your children yet?
No, my children have not set up their own houses yet. And I'm not sure they would welcome it, to be honest. I haven't, neither of them have shown a great interest in house plans so far. I've tried to give one to you, and you said cactuses weren't yours for everything. However, my elder sister has given one to her son. And my, when we...when we were talking, because I told my family WhatsApp that we were having this conversation. So then one of my nieces said she'd like one. So I will take off, I did offer her the whole plan. I will give her a leaf. I'll start off a leaf for her. Yeah, so it will go on down the generations.
How old do you think it was? I mean, when was the original one given to your mum?
In the early 1960s, I would say.
09:17
And do you think Sally was giving you a cutting of her cactus, or was she just giving you the whole cactus?
No, she was giving us a leaf. A leaf? Yeah. Okay. Kind of, as we say, sprog off a leaf. Sprog off a leaf for somebody. And the leaves do root.
I'm almost intrigued because I'd like to see them root. It's just that you haven't sold me on those tiny little hairs that you just brush past it and they get stuck in your hand or on your skin, so that's feeling less keen, really. It's interesting, I like the idea that it bears her name that you remember this person, Sally, because of this plant. And she kind of lives on through this cactus.
She must be long dead, but she would be surprised, yeah, I think, to know.
10.12
Someone who really understands about plants being passed down through the generations is Sarah Joard-Jones, also known as the plant rescuer.
I just think there is something so...beautiful about all the care and attention that has gone into nurturing this plant and when that person passes away I feel all that love is still contained there within every single cell of those plants and I feel that's something you can really feel. I think that's quite comforting for people to have that connection.
So plants for you hold stories?
Absolutely, yeah. And make that connection between family members that might no longer be with us and through generations too.
I think that kind of ties quite well, Lindsay, doesn't it, in a way, with this particular cactus?
Yes, very much so. I mean, I remember it as being Sally's cactus and I remember the story, but that's true of me more generally. I have quite a bad memory, but I do remember who gave me cuttings, so my plants do embody and they do have an association with people for me.
11:12
I've seen some of the videos on Instagram and they are extraordinary of your ventures into plant rescuing and I've seen one with an incredible cactus that belonged to an elderly gentleman that you took care of. I mean are cacti of particular interest of yours?
Yeah I absolutely love cacti and they are really long-lived which is why I end up taking care of some cacti that whose owners might have sadly passed away. But this particular one you're talking about, I was contacted by a lady on Instagram, which I often am, to be honest, people do contact me asking me if I can take care of their plants. But this one really struck a chord with me. Her elderly father was very sadly in the very latter stages of his life and he'd said to his daughter, please, will you find somebody to look after my cactus? I want it to go to a good home.
So she had to find somebody that would come and collect this cactus and take care of it and be able to tell her dad this before he passed on that she'd found a home for it. So yeah, I got this call and she said, will you come and save this plant for my dad? They lived in Bournemouth, so it's not that close to where I live, but after seeing the plant and hearing the story, I couldn't not go and collect it. So myself and my husband went down and we went to meet her. We went to her dad's house, who by this point had very sadly passed away. So it was quite emotional for her. But through the back in the garden, there was a lean-to sort of conservatory, which was outside, more like a workshop actually. And there was this incredible, it's called a Cleistocactus Strausii, which is, if you've not seen it before, it's also called a Silver Torch Cactus because they're very hairy. They live at quite high elevation, so they cover themselves with this almost hair to insulate themselves from the cold and to protect themselves from the heat. So I was absolutely dumbfounded when I saw this plant. It's probably about five foot tall. It's not as big as it should be because it actually turns out to be between 120 and 150 years old. So Lyn told me the story of Ernest, who is her father, being given this cactus from his grandparents who got it for a wedding present and actually detested it and ended up giving it to their grandson who is Ernest, which was Lyn's dad. So when people saw the plant and saw the size of it, they doubted its age. But because it'd been kept in quite poor conditions in a very small pot, its roots really constricted. It hadn't grown as it should do. So therefore it was much smaller than it should have been, but I have no doubt, I don't doubt her story at all. And if you think that her dad, Ernest, was 90 when he passed away, it's completely plausible that this incredible cactus had lived through two world wars and was perhaps alive in the reign of Victoria, Queen Victoria, which is just...mind-blowing. So to have that piece of history is such a privilege. And I'm going to get a little plaque made with the story on it and attach that to the pot that so whoever has this plan in the future has that story.
15.00
I can relate to the story that Sarah was telling because I'm not very fond of this cactus except when it's in flower. I don't have a great deal of room in my house for houseplants and it's quite big. It's about two feet in diameter and it has these nasty little hairs that penetrate your skin when you just really go near it. So I kind of detest it as well. But then it gets these huge buds. The buds are now about four inches long and waiting to burst forth when Wimbledon arrives. And yes, then it redeems itself.
15:32
They're honestly jaw-dropping, the flowers aren't they? You just cannot believe that these are produced from this plant that looks like nothing most of the year. And then these insanely beautiful, huge, it's red isn't it, the red flowers?
Mine is scarlet and the flowers are iridescent and they produce a kind of nectar that drips onto the floor.
15.58
Actually with mine because there's so much pollen, isn't there? I often put mine outside so the bees can have the pollen because I feel it goes to waste inside.
Was there a time when cacti were really, really popular and there were these incredible collections? Are we in a different era now? People have smaller houses, perhaps we don't have such big collections?
Yeah, I think that's true actually. I'm a member of the British Cactus and Succulent Society and it's actually quite an aging society because I think back in perhaps the sort of 60s, 70s, there was more sort of collectors then and it has kind of dwindled now. But I think with the resurgence of houseplants and the interest in houseplants, people are beginning to look again at cacti and succulent because they're...really actually a very easy houseplant as long as you give them bright light on the brightest window sill that you have, they're really easy to care for. And you know, you can go off on holiday and leave them for, you know, weeks on end and you don't need to ask a neighbour to water them. So as long as they're given enough light, they will just look after themselves. So I think that is something that people are quite attracted to now is they're just easy to care for. And a lot of people like the kind of sculptural architectural quality of cacti and succulents. They can really add something special to a room. You know, they're so weird and wonderful. They're not the norm. So I think people are enjoying that kind of as an interior sort of decor, almost. Um, but, but don't ever treat them like they're non-living. Please treat them like they're living plants and make sure that you give them the basics of light and water and what they require to live.
17:48
Now we thought that this, well, when I first started to hear about this particular plant, that this was an epiphyllum. And Lindy, that's what you've always thought as well, is that correct?
No, I only bothered to try to find out what this was after we spoke. Okay. Sally. Sally's cactus was good enough for me. But then I found a picture on the internet that looked apparently, appeared to be identical, but was this epiphyllum. But that was a bit a plant that would not have roots and my plant has always grown in soil and I water it through the soil.
Yes, it's an epiphyte, exactly, which they do have roots, but it's quite surprising that yours is doing well in like a dense soil because they would prefer something a little bit more free draining with bark in it. But what you probably definitely don't have is actually an epiphyllum because epiphyllum hybrids are mostly derived from crosses between species of disocactus rather than epiphyllum. True epiphyllum species are actually quite uncommon. And the telltale sign is the flowers are normally white or cream colored. So I can say you definitely don't have an epiphyllum, but it's a very confusing taxonomical history actually. So Epiphyllum ackermannii isn't an epiphyllum but a species of disocactus and a true disocactus ackermannii species is very rare. So most if not all of us who think we have a disocactus ackermannii have actually got the hybrid. This all came about in 1824 when George Ackermann brought a cutting back from Mexico and it was grown on and successfully flowered but it did die in cultivation which proved that the species wasn't an easy plant to grow. And around the same time, a gardener had succeeded in crossing two disocactus species, producing a red flowering hybrid. But unfortunately, in the publication, The Cactaceae, the hybrid was cited as the original species, and the true species was forgotten. So what the authors ended up describing as an epiphyllum Ackermannii is actually the hybrid.
20:08
So the true species was rediscovered in 1943, and that's since been moved into the disocactus genus. So it's all very confusing, but what you have is a disocactus hybridus, as it's known. Wow, wow. So it's D-I-S-O, and then cactus, but it's all one word. Not to be confused with disco cactus, which is also, that's also a genus. So that is quite confusing.
But what is difficult is to understand, sorry, my cat is in the way here. I'm trying to fight to my microphone through the tail. What is difficult to know is the actual parentage of any of these disocactus hybrids, because they've been hybridized so extensively over the years. Nobody really knows the true parentage anymore, but what we do end up calling the red flowering plants are disocactus hybridus.
21:07
Are these all called orchid cacti? Yeah, that's the common name for them. Yeah. Okay. And that's what's confusing about common names because nobody really knows what you're talking about. If you say an orchid cactus, it could be the true species or it could be one of these hybrids. So, you know, orchid cactus is a name for about, God knows how many plants, probably about 10 different plants. So yeah, difficult using common names. Yeah but also difficult in this instance because we don't actually know what these plants have been hybridized with. So if we just stick with Dysocactus hybrid, that'll do it. Yeah.
That's what mine will be from now on. But just to be clear, Sarah, you're saying that these Disocactus hybrids are in fact epiphytes.
They are epiphytes, that's right.
So you'd find them growing on tree branches and things.
The originals, yes, of course, these are hybrids we're talking about, but yes, they are epiphytes and they do put their roots down on, they don't take anything from the tree. They're just a host that they kind of live on, but they don't take their nutrients and water from the tree. They sort of live in the nooks of branches where debris will gather and water will gather there. So they've got nutrients from the debris, from the organic matter that's decomposing and then the water that gathers there as well.
22:31
Where was their natural habitat?
In South American rainforests.
Really? Gosh, it would be something to see one in its natural habitat.
Wouldn't it? I know, I'd absolutely love that. They must be enormous there.
Yeah, they must be huge. I think I did read that some of these, their stems, not leaves, of course they look like leaves, but they're flattened stems. I think I read somewhere that sometimes the stems can grow up to three meters long, which is remarkable. I suppose in habitat that's definitely possible. I would doubt that's possible at home, but would be spectacular to see it for sure. And there's many forest cacti as they're known, which don't live on the floor like we know of desert cacti, but they live epiphytically in the trees. So there's about, as far as I know, maybe 10 or 12 different genus that live in rainforests. And it's not really how we think of cacti, is it? You know, we think of themas, yeah, arid, dry habitat-loving plants. But this is why I get sort of upset when people say, you can't have cacti in your bathroom. Well, you can if they're forest cacti, because they really enjoy the extra humidity, of course, because they come from forests.
And is that why, I guess that's why people call them orchid cactuses, because that's the same kind of habitat that orchids-
Yeah, exactly right, because they're epiphytes too and they've got beautiful flowers, so there's similarities there.
You can find Sarah on Instagram. Search for the plant rescuer. Coming up in a moment, Sarah gives us some great advice on how to care for these forest cacti and how to get them to bloom. I should explain that up to this point, I had politely declined Lindy's offer of a cutting of Sally's cactus. That's because aged about five, I'd picked up a particularly spiky cactus at my grandmother's house and Nana spent the entire afternoon picking the spines out of my hand. That was instead of going to the cinema and my older sister was not impressed. And I've kind of borne a bit of a grudge since then.
What I love about making these plant stories is the passion of the growers. By the time Sarah had told us the story of the Disocactus hybridus and how they grow in the wild, I changed my mind about a cutting and I'm rather hoping that Lindy will give me one. So if you too want to know how to grow forest cacti, this is for you. Now of course you can grow it in a pot, but what do you need to put in the pot?
HOW TO GROW A DISOCACTUS HYBRIDUS (ORCHID CACTI)
25.09
I wouldn't just put it in potting compost but I would use that as the base, but then I would perhaps have 50% bark thrown in there as well. That's kind of closer to its natural habitat because the roots of course aren't buried in soil on a tree, they're exposed to a lot of air. So that's why I would add in about 50%. I call it orchid bark because that's how you buy it in the shops. It's a bag of orchid bark. So 50% potting compost mixed with 50% orchid bark mix that all together and pot it in that. Now that allows for not only the water to be very free draining and drain quickly through the pot, but it also allows a lot of airflow around the roots, which is important for epiphytic plants. So although yours sounds like it's doing very well in soil.
I mean- I think mine's gonna have, be revitalized. I'm just about to move house. So maybe when I'll buy myself some stout gardening gloves and repot it in Peat-free compost mixed with orchid bark. That's a lovely thing.
Yeah, you can even add a little bit of perlite in there if you like as well. I mean, I've got mine growing in a southeast facing bathroom window, but it does have the frosting on the window. But I would suggest like an east or west facing window where it gets perhaps a couple of hours of direct sunlight in a morning or late afternoon. But I think a south facing window is too much for it because of course these plants come from forests where they're used to dappled sunlight rather than full on, you know, all day long, 24, you know, 12 hour sun beating down. So yours sounds like it's doing really well, but if you want to try and get it to flower more, you could perhaps try it in a brighter window.
I was going to say, are there any tricks to getting them to flower? What would you suggest?
I think we're quite lucky here in the UK because they do respond to a drop in temperature over the winter. So if you've got it hanging near a window, which mine is, of course, near a window, it does get a lot colder in the winter. So I don't really have to do anything to help mine flower. Although I do suggest feeding it when it's growing. So through the summer months, I would feed it about once every month with a good quality fertilizer, which can help. But yeah, I think it's the combination of good light and that drop in temperature over winter, which can encourage the flowers at this time of year.
27:46
And what about the watering regime? We think of them as not needing much water. Is that true of these forest cacti?
Actually, they need more water than your normal sort of desert dwelling cactus because they come from forests where they're used to, you know, a lot more rain. So I water mine when it's almost dry. So I use my finger and I stick my finger into the pot and I will feel around into the substrate. And if I can feel that it's almost reaching dry that's when I'll water it. They don't like to be sitting in damp soil constantly so I do allow it almost to dry out. I don't know what you do with yours, Lindy?
Yeah similar actually I'd probably under water it thinking it was a cactus I shouldn't give it as much water but yeah the same thing. I certainly when it's time to grow and get the flower buds on I water it and I give it a little bit of food yeah.
Yeah and that will help with the with the blooming but it sounds like you're doing a great job.
I think I've been deficient in love. Oh, well at least it gets love when it's blooming. Yes.
29:01
You can see pictures of Lindy's Disocactus x hybridis on the website, ourplantstories.com and I'll also post some photos on Instagram, ourplantstories_ podcast. Sarah also had a great suggestion, which was to hang your cacti. Her one in the bathroom is hanging, which means they take up less space, clever, and you won't brush against those tiny hairs. Perfect.
If you've enjoyed this episode, then please think about rating and viewing it on your podcast app. And remember, there are over 30 episodes with plant stories about monkey parcels and magnolias, peonies and passion flowers.
Our Plant Stories is an independent podcast presented and produced by me, Sally Flatman.